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*Your comments needed please*

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*Your comments needed please*

Post by Guest on Tue May 05, 2009 2:45 pm

As the forum is growing, staff suggest that RHU needs to make some important changes to the way emergency funding is requested and donated.


As from.......................


1. A vet report outlining a treatment plan must be submitted to Admin for verification and for permission to post.

2. Only the head of the rescue is permitted to request funding appeals.

3. The vet report must also include the cost of the treatment plan. This is the amount you will be permitted to post on the thread.

4. All donations made by members must be paid directly to the vet account for the said animal.

4. You must also, in your signature, include a ticker counter which must be kept up to date with the amount left to raise on show.

5. At any given time, Admin can request a veterinary update.

6. In the event of unforeseen circumstances regarding the animal, Admin must be informed immediately of any remaining monies in the account. The donations must then be frozen and upon request, will be transferred onto a similar future appeal.

7. When the target has been reached, you must request that the thread be locked.



Please Use ***Urgent Funds Template***
What RHU help do you require? Urgent Funding Appeal
Contact/Organisation Details:
Permission: Do you have Admins permission to post this template?
Please post vet name and address?
Donations: Include how donations are to be paid to the said vets?
Agreement: Do you agree to Admin requesting a veterinary update at anytime?
Ticker Counter: Have you included this to your signature?


Please post here with your comments/views. We will listen and take all comments onboard Very Happy

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Re: *Your comments needed please*

Post by Neapolitan Mastiff Admin on Tue May 05, 2009 3:06 pm

Good move forward, Mods. clap

You asked for comments about the new rules:

With regards to point 1, the problem with some veterinary practices is that they are very reluctant to lay out their estimate of costs on paper. Are you just asking for a treatment plan without costs? This would be easier to get a vet to do.

A potential problem with point 4 is when a dog is moved mid treatment, say from kennels to foster and them hopefully to adoptive home which may mean treatment coming from various practices. In this case donations may come in made out to the incorrect vet.

Can anybody suggest ways around the above probs?

With point 6, are you referring to the sad death of the animal or any unforeseen circumstance where the dog is no longer under the care of the rescue?

Also can you suggest appropriate 'ticker counter' sources?
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Re: *Your comments needed please*

Post by LianneC on Tue May 05, 2009 3:10 pm

What about urgent funds for boarding costs and transport for the likes of bobbyb?
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Re: *Your comments needed please*

Post by Guest on Tue May 05, 2009 3:39 pm

Neapolitan Mastiff Admin wrote:
With regards to point 1, the problem with some veterinary practices is that they are very reluctant to lay out their estimate of costs on paper. Are you just asking for a treatment plan without costs? This would be easier to get a vet to do.
A fixed total amount to treat an animal would be more desirable for donation purposes than no costs given at all.

A potential problem with point 4 is when a dog is moved mid treatment, say from kennels to foster and them hopefully to adoptive home which may mean treatment coming from various practices. In this case donations may come in made out to the incorrect vet.

Can anybody suggest ways around the above probs?

A valid point.

With point 6, are you referring to the sad death of the animal or any unforeseen circumstance where the dog is no longer under the care of the rescue?
Point 6 is with reference to the death of an animal.

Also can you suggest appropriate 'ticker counter' sources?

http://www.tickerfactory.com/ezticker/ticker_designer.php?type=14

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Re: *Your comments needed please*

Post by Guest on Tue May 05, 2009 3:43 pm

LianneC wrote:What about urgent funds for boarding costs and transport for the likes of bobbyb?

This is a separate issue that we can also review Smile

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Re: *Your comments needed please*

Post by Spooks on Wed May 06, 2009 1:25 am

I think it's an excellent idea in theory, but as with most things there's bound to be a flaw.

Point 1 > Any vet should be able to give you a ball-park figure of what treatment will cost - even if it's on the high side.

Presumably the majority of rescue dogs aren't covered by insurance, so I would like to raise one salient point which I think all Rescues should bear in mind when appealing for funds/donations for medical treatment, rather than surgical treatment, is that most medicines can cost almost half the price if bought online. A vet by law has to give you a prescription if asked for. OK there might be a charge now for this, since the law changed last Nov allowing vets to charge for a prescription.

I don't think posting the the vet's name and address is a good idea.
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Re: *Your comments needed please*

Post by Jod on Wed May 06, 2009 4:57 am

I think Jaq and Lynne have raised some good points.

I'm wondering why donations have to be paid direct to the vet and not to the Rescue? If I was donating say 3 to a certain cause, it would seem a bit of a waste of the vet practices time to process that payment.

Are you worried that some organisations might not be using the funds for the things they have stated?

I think that Rescues having to have a ticker in their sig is a nice idea but may be a little bit inconvenient. For some people representing Rescues they may not have the time or the knowledge to set this up. Would a running total within the thread not be sufficient?

Also, I hope this will not apply to the truly desperate situations within urgent threads where people pledge their money to save the life on an animal (for boarding or petrol etc.) as obviously that could be a major hindrance.

Overall I think this is a good idea but at the same time I'm not sure what the problem is with the informal system already in place.

Thank you for consulting the community about this, it is always appreciated thumb
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Re: *Your comments needed please*

Post by LianneC on Wed May 06, 2009 5:08 am

Jod wrote:

I think that Rescues having to have a ticker in their sig is a nice idea but may be a little bit inconvenient. For some people representing Rescues they may not have the time or the knowledge to set this up. Would a running total within the thread not be sufficient?

I totally agree with the time restraints, especially when only the head of the rescue can request the appeal and have to update the ticker thingy. The whole point in rescues having representatives is because the head of the rescue cannot possobly do everything on their own. It could take anything up to a week, maybe more, for a vet report to be sent, for Admin to accept it and then be posted on here! The animal might be dead by then.

Jod wrote: I'm not sure what the problem is with the informal system already in place.


What is the problem with what we're doing now?
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Re: *Your comments needed please*

Post by bramblesmum on Wed May 06, 2009 1:25 pm

Recently with Bonny/Tessie our initial estimate was 900+ (verbally not written) however once we had x-rays and a orthopedic consulant on board the actual treatment was only 240 - we managed to raise 215 of this via appeals.
Would it be easier to scan in vet bills or receipts and send this to admin as you go along or I liked what EmmaSemple did re her appeal stated the vets so people could check their money was going to good use.
I am not sure if we would have got such a good response to our appeal had we asked people to send donations direct to our vet as people do tend to paypal for ease? 90% of the donations we received for this appeal was via paypal.
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Re: *Your comments needed please*

Post by Admin on Fri May 08, 2009 7:40 am

perhaps we could do it slightly differently?

perhaps in URGENT CASES a rescue could inform admin with proof via the template and vets details and we could release money from the paypal account. Of course there would have to be sufficient funds for this.

in the non urgent appeals the template could still be used but a thread would allow for people to pledge direct to the rescue?

problems would then only be having sufficient funds in the paypal account for these urgent ones?

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Re: *Your comments needed please*

Post by Guest on Fri May 08, 2009 7:53 am

Admin wrote:perhaps we could do it slightly differently?

perhaps in URGENT CASES a rescue could inform admin with proof via the template and vets details and we could release money from the paypal account. Of course there would have to be sufficient funds for this.

in the non urgent appeals the template could still be used but a thread would allow for people to pledge direct to the rescue?

problems would then only be having sufficient funds in the paypal account for these urgent ones?

This thread was more for when a specific rescue posts an appeal asking members to donate to their appeal? Not for when rescue's appeal to the RHU funds,,,

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Re: *Your comments needed please*

Post by Admin on Sat May 09, 2009 6:35 am

fair enough but i dont see how any pledges would be quick enough if the appeal was urgent :S thats all i meant Embarassed

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Re: *Your comments needed please*

Post by Rainrescue on Tue May 12, 2009 6:06 pm

My apologies - I have just posted a mamoth post - and hadn't seen this one here which is obviously on similar lines.

The ideas are good here - but maybe just too much over the top to be able to work out. TBH Any rescue who is helping out and who regularly uses the forum - will always have vets fees of their own. Ok - so dogs may move on - but as long as the money is paid to the vet directly - then that will stay there for the next castration/neuter/emergency treatment that the rescue may need. Not perfect - but a comfort blanket.

When rescues like Jaq at Neo rescue - open heartedly offer to take a dog out of a pound - not knowing if the bill will be 100 or 1000 or 5000 pounds - those sorts of rescues should be helped. How often are people putting rescues up for help with dogs needing vet treatment - and people dont/ can't offer. with this system in place - they could have that support from us as a forum.

Anyone can offer a home for a cute fluffy rehomeable dog - get an adoption fee - and ask for a funding appeal to help with donations for it. For me - the rescues to help constantly the dogs in dog pounds at the point of destruction - need the help of forums like this.

Whats wrong with the current system? Personally we have been lied to and deceived by someone who uses this forum that I want to ensure they can't manage to sneak money out of under false pretenses and maybe this system would give peace of mind.

Bear in mind this is only for a central fund to donate to - not for the odd donations that people want to willingly give to help support individual rescues with urgent appeals.
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Re: *Your comments needed please*

Post by Jod on Wed May 13, 2009 4:01 am

Rainrescue wrote:Whats wrong with the current system? Personally we have been lied to and deceived by someone who uses this forum that I want to ensure they can't manage to sneak money out of under false pretenses and maybe this system would give peace of mind.

Really? What a shame. I wont ask names but hope the person or persons involved have been appropriately dealt with?

Well that is certainly a good reason for the system to change then!
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Re: *Your comments needed please*

Post by K9Karma on Wed May 13, 2009 5:14 am

Anything which tightens up financial procedures is welcome.

Perhaps it might be worth a rescue rep floating the idea past their vet practice to get their comments on the workability of the current proposals.

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Re: *Your comments needed please*

Post by Admin on Wed May 13, 2009 6:10 am

please could you inform me Jacquie i dont like the thought of people being conned????

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Re: *Your comments needed please*

Post by Rainrescue on Fri May 15, 2009 4:32 pm

Yes - will pm you
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Re: *Your comments needed please*

Post by Admin on Sun May 17, 2009 4:35 am

got it, and we will be making sure we get to the bottom of this thanks jacquie

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Re: *Your comments needed please*

Post by Jacobean on Tue May 19, 2009 12:32 pm

I deal with vets as treasurer and I doubt they would be happy having to administer various different payments made to them for a dog. It would be an absolute pain for them. They won't always tell you exactly what costs are going to be either as they're dealing with living beings and who knows what they'll find once they open them up. They would just want to make charges as they occurred and to receive payment for the whole lot or parts (if treatment was on an ongoing basis).

Plus even if they would accept this the rescue would have no idea how much had been sent to them so what was left outstanding. It would get too confusing all round.

It's only when you get that final bill in you know for sure how much the treatment has cost. There is no reason of course why rescues can't show the invoices/statements they receive from the vets.

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Re: *Your comments needed please*

Post by Neapolitan Mastiff Admin on Tue May 19, 2009 1:33 pm

Jacobean wrote:There is no reason of course why rescues can't show the invoices/statements they receive from the vets.

It would also be useful to highlight the vets that like to fleece rescues... We've come across a few of those.. zip

And of course some terrific practices where they cut as many corners as they can clap
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Re: *Your comments needed please*

Post by Rainrescue on Wed May 20, 2009 1:29 am

I don't think this is complicated at all.
Rescue takes dog to their own vet for treatment.
Vet takes dog in
Rescue applies to RHU for funding for dog saying its 'potentially' expensive and gives 'their' view of what is going to be needed.
RHU review the application of the rescue.
(My view is that if rescue has a good track record on RHU (supporters, nominated by another rescue and takes dogs in that are in need)
RHU decide out of their funds - if they can manage to help with the vet fee.
If yes - make out a cheque to vet - send a) direct to rescue b) direct to vet

With the alternative being that vet/rescue didn't get any money - I don't think thats hard.

I don't think we need a vet report or estimate of what work is being done on that particular dog - like i said earlier, if the rescue is reputable - and known to help dogs that do end up with vet bills (ie dogs out of pounds, old ones, etc.,) it wouldn't matter if it left a credit on their account for the next needy one. Better that than left floating unaccounted for.

The other thing is that we could probably 'sponsor' a couple of reputable holding kennels for dogs at risk - and maybe with fuel - work out a system where the transporter could claim direct from RHU? Its a shame when these small rescues are suffering so badly when really many would probably help if it was clear.

Can we do some sort of questions to other members about it?
If they would be happy to do a membership / monthly donation towards vet fees or kenelling etc.,?
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Re: *Your comments needed please*

Post by Jacobean on Wed May 20, 2009 8:09 am

So the vet account Julie mentions as number 4 doesn't mean the actual account at the vets then. It's a vet account on here as part of the RHU fund?

I thought this was concerning rescues themselves making appeals on here and individuals sending funds direct to them rather than RHU issuing payment.

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Re: *Your comments needed please*

Post by Rainrescue on Wed May 20, 2009 11:29 am

My view is that we should be drawing up a way that we can collectively help rescues - who help pets in crisis. Thats not accusing anyone of mis-use of funds - it just gives us as a forum a method to ensure that the money raised is going to what it is intended.

I have heard rescues being accused of keeping money when the dog has moved on - or not paying kenelling fees - again when the dogs aren't in kennels. Personally - I don't have a problem with either of those things - as long as I know that the rescue receiving the funds - will just use the money for the next needy case. Its irrelevant which one actually gets the money concerned (thats my own opinion).

Mods - is it possible that we ask members if they would be prepared to do regular donations to support 1 of 3 options - (vets/kenel/fuel) - then if we have a good majority that will either do a 1-off donation/membership or make a month s/o - then we can ask for suggestions how it can be distributed safely.
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Re: *Your comments needed please*

Post by Hopper on Thu May 21, 2009 12:54 am

Ony just seen this and I think its a little far fetched.

Some vets charge for written reports, I myself as a rescue cant afford additonal fees. We dont always have estimates either and from past experiences we have been given estimates and then the total hase been a few hundered more? Donations paid direct to vets, I am not sure vets would be happy with people phoning all the time should a an appeal go well and having to spend alot more time taking payments, also some vets dont accept payments over the phone? I havent a clue about ticker timers?? But what if you have more than one appeal?

I find the whole thing just to much. I am taking it that somewhere along the line something has gone wrong with donations for things to be tightened up like this?

I guess i will have to do fundraising and appeals else where now which is a shame as this was my main used forum Crying or Very sad
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Re: *Your comments needed please*

Post by Rainrescue on Thu May 21, 2009 3:07 am

Re: *Your comments needed please*
Rainrescue Yesterday at 8:29 am

.I don't think this is complicated at all.
Rescue takes dog to their own vet for treatment.
Vet takes dog in
Rescue applies to RHU for funding for dog saying its 'potentially' expensive and gives 'their' view of what is going to be needed.
RHU review the application of the rescue.
(My view is that if rescue has a good track record on RHU (supporters, nominated by another rescue and takes dogs in that are in need)
RHU decide out of their funds - if they can manage to help with the vet fee.
If yes - make out a cheque to vet - send a) direct to rescue b) direct to vet
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Re: *Your comments needed please*

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