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Safety during transportation.

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Re: Safety during transportation.

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:58 am

and taking into consideration that insurance runs out and has to be renewed and people get bans........

i wouldnt know where to start but am willing to help if i can with the id badges etc

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Re: Safety during transportation.

Post by phoenix on Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:28 am

i'm going to put the cat right among the pigeons here..........i'm assuming this thread was started with a recent gone wrong run in mind......i've been transporting for many years and always tend to meet the same people over and over again, and its all based on trust, i have been trusted time and time again to transport dogs, nearly always for the same rescues, my car is fully comp MOTd and taxed, i have a clean full drivers license and i live where i say i do, and i dont think any ID badge, or utillity bill will make any difference to whether i can be trusted or not, i still havnt forgotton the 'holly' episode and my trust in some has been broken, trust has be earnt by both rescue and volunteer and thankfully my reputation preceded me on that occasion, and i am still trusted by my 'regular' rescues who i continue to help
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Re: Safety during transportation.

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:38 am

Thats sort of what I was saying earlier Jayne.. you can't know that someone is a trustworthy transporter until they've been trusted to transport.

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Re: Safety during transportation.

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:51 am

on the other hand i too will now only transport and help rescues i trust myself, they need to earn my trust first, but we all have to start somewhere so what to do with the new people who are unknown and new to transporting and helping?

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Re: Safety during transportation.

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:57 am

as a newbie and only done 1 transport run for RHU, i did think to myself that no checks had been made about myself and how did the rescue know i was a trust worthy person???
although i am trustworthy and i am legal to drive and been doing rescue work for many years- but who was to know i am??

i must say i did feel slightly paranoid of what people might think being handed a dog from another car on the motorway services, i had no proof to say what i was doing if i was approached-
imo an id card stating who i am and what organisation i'm from is a great idea,
also used to identify yourself when performing h/c and assesments.

just my opion x

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Re: Safety during transportation.

Post by mafric on Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:00 pm

isnt there usually paperwork? When i do RDR runs forms are passed between transporters, wouldnt that be proof?
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Re: Safety during transportation.

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:09 pm

mafric wrote:isnt there usually paperwork? When i do RDR runs forms are passed between transporters, wouldnt that be proof?

i had no paper work just a vaccinaton card- so no i didnt have any proof

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Re: Safety during transportation.

Post by phoenix on Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:11 pm

nikkki wrote:

i must say i did feel slightly paranoid of what people might think being handed a dog from another car on the motorway services, i had no proof to say what i was doing if i was approached-
imo an id card stating who i am and what organisation i'm from is a great idea,
also used to identify yourself when performing h/c and assesments.

i used to be a little paranoid too, but for transporting, i have made a few window signs that say.....rescue dogs in transit, this can be seen from a distance....people have approached me to find out more about rescue work, and they cant belive such a lovely dog in in rescue ect ect, so i educate them lol! your more likely to get a confrontation by someone because they dont see your ID badge untill they've already confronted you imo
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Re: Safety during transportation.

Post by Mad Lensman on Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:34 pm

I have an idea....

It MAY be too way out there - but I don't like the idea of my details appearing on yet another database....

There exists a databse of all the insured vehicles on the UK roads. It is called ASKMID and is available online to everyone. SO here's the idea, every person on a transport run PM's the person they are meeting with their Make, Model and Reg No., which can be CHECKED using thye ASKMID site (It is FREE!) - WHich will tie the registration to the car - it will also help members to identify each other in motorway services car parks without having to ask everyone with a "green mondeo" if they are here to collect a dog....

"How does this help?"
Well, the person who is meeting to continue the run has the registration number of the vehicle they need to meet, they can VALIDATE it against a NATIONAL database and this can also VERIFY that the car is properly insured etc. It also gives a rescue a record of the vehicles being used (Without names & addresses - hence anonymous until something goes wrong) and provides a method of contact in the event of a problem occuring! Transport drivers check the vehicle type and reg BEFORE They hand over their charges and everyone is safe. When a problem occurs, the rescue simply inform the police with the registration of the vehicle concerned, instant access to name, address etc etc.


A few Q's answered before they are asked......

"What about rental cars?"
Rental vehicles CANNOT be insured to transport animals or livestock - Courtesy cars provided by insurance companies often stipulate that they cannot be used for transportation of livestock also, so it may be worth checking on your policy.

"ASKMID Has gone RED when I put the Reg no. in... What's wrong?"
The vehicle you have asked to check is NOT insured!

"The vehicle make doesn't match what I got from ASKMID..."
Beware, there MAY be a problem....!
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Re: Safety during transportation.

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:30 pm

Checking your vehicle is on the MID
1. Enter your Vehicle Registration Number

2. Confirm that this vehicle belongs to you
I confirm that the vehicle detailed above is registered, owned or insured by either my employer or myself and is regularly driven by me. I understand it is an offence to wrongfully obtain information of this nature without reasonable cause and if I fail to provide true reasons for acquiring information I may be committing an offence of unlawfully obtaining data contrary to section 55 of the Data Protection Act 1988. I declare that the information provided will not be used for any purposes unrelated to this enquiry. I agree to the terms of use as stated on this web site.
3. Click ASKMID

....A great idea but it does state you need to be the registered owner...

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Re: Safety during transportation.

Post by LianneC on Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:47 pm

it also says this in the small print:

I understand it is an offence to wrongfully obtain information of this nature without reasonable cause

Dont we have reasonable cause?
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Re: Safety during transportation.

Post by Missymoo on Mon Feb 09, 2009 2:01 pm

I would happily pay for a badge if needed I am CRB checked because of my job, and helping at school so I can proove I am me.....To be fair the looks at services I find amusing but could one day be questioned.Its a hard one this....
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Re: Safety during transportation.

Post by Ruby's Mum on Mon Feb 09, 2009 2:07 pm

Hmmm personally an ID badge is not a bad idea although I do not like having my photo taken ever. My wedding day was a nightmare for this very reason! But an ID card is in principle a good idea.

I would not wish to give copies of my driving licence, utility bills etc. I am very conscious of identity theft having known someone who had this done to them and the consequences of it.

I am a member of the Institute of Advanced Motorists and have been for over 10 years. I abide by their membership terms and and I am very proud of my advanced driving achievement. I would never knowingly drive without the appropriate insurance, MOT and tax, safe tyres, correct fluid levels etc... which is more than can be said for (yet again a minority) some people.

I have had at least two different people from two different transport runs meet at my home address to collect/deliver an animal(s) for the next part of the run. Is it their responsibility to tell and Admin person that I really do live there? Maybe I just have a good mate who lets me meet there?

If someone is looking to be trouble they will be trouble. A sad fact that no amount of paperchasing will eradicate. There are many genuine people on this and many other volunteer forums who are completely trustworthy and do what they do with pride knowing that they are trusted to do their bit.

I do not know what happened last weekend, nor do I need to know, but it has clearly rattled some people, perhaps rightly so, but I fear that the actions that may be put into place as a result of one incident in over 1500 cases could end up alienating some good people.

imo
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Re: Safety during transportation.

Post by mafric on Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:38 pm

gdpost i agree Wendy.
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Re: Safety during transportation.

Post by Mad Lensman on Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:42 pm

In response to the ASKMID queries.

Lianne, we probably do not have "Reasonable Cause", as single members of the forum. However, rescues could be argued to have reasonable cause to check the identity and validity of their transporters and after the recent events they should do so. ANyone who DOES NOT wish to have their information validated in any way should be cause for concern.

I am not saying that rescues should become "Big Brother" in their attitudes towards their volunteers but all rescues should acknowledge the fact that there do exist person or persons unknown who wish to obtain animals by decention, whether they decieve a single owner or a rescue is of immaterial consequence, other than if a rescue is decieved in such a fashion, it casts a poor dark shadow of suspicion over the innocent and decent transporters amongst us.

I, for one, as a concerned motorist and rescue driver, have NO PROBLEM with rescues or individuals checking the details held by ASKMID or any other public access database about my vehicle and it's insurance state. I suggested the USE of ASKMID as a possible solution to the problem which has arisen on the forum of "ROGUE" elements being given access to rescue animals and the potential for rescue animals to be stolen during runs. All the ASKMID database does is identify a vehicle and reveal it's insurance state. Surely it is no great leap of the imagination for us to see that confirming the identity and validity of the vehicle used to transport animals is as good as us carrying the mythical ID cards. Are we all to start carrying an ID card for each and every rescue? If so, there are those of us who support multiple rescues who would be carrying a multitude of cards.

If we cannot give the INDIVIDUALS the power to check our vehicles then I suggest that we each give our permission for a rescue (whichever we are transporting for at the time) to hold information regarding ourselves, and the methods of transport which we will utilise to transport their animals from point to point. That way the rescue CAN should they wish to, check up on a vehicle prior to a run, during a run and after a run. If necessary, a simple handover email can be sent to a transport co-ordinator giving time/location/vehilce reg's involved and personal names once the handover has been completed. In this method, a rescue can retro-actively check their runs, and if necessary pinpoint any wrong doings by whichever means they choose.

A simple disclaimer is all that would be necessary for each charity to post, stating that the transporting party agrees to allow the charity rescue to have access to their data from the emails and to process it as required. The rescue could agree to hold the information until 24 hours have elapsed form the end of the transport run and then delete the information. This relys on a certain amount of trust between transporters and rescues, surely if we cannot trust one another this much, then we deserve to be spied upon "Big Brother" Style anyway!

The Data Protection act also states that an individual MAY FREELY GIVE access to any information they deem necessary to a trusted party AT ANY TIME.
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Re: Safety during transportation.

Post by ayrshiregal on Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:52 pm

HOLD ON are we not missing the obvious here, we all have driving licenses to transport in the first place, most are prob photocards now, SO we have id with us and we show it to the each other before hand over's take place.

As for posting in utility bills, who's to say they are posting in their own?? these things tell nothing as i was recently victim fraud from my old addy.
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Re: Safety during transportation.

Post by Mad Lensman on Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:55 pm

ayrshiregal wrote:HOLD ON are we not missing the obvious here, we all have driving licenses to transport in the first place, most are prob photocards now, SO we have id with us and we show it to the each other before hand over's take place.

Doh!!!!! Nicely done - but you'd be AMAZED how many people haven't yet traded their old paper ones in for new photocard jobs.... and also, at how many of us do NOT carry their driving licenses when driving!!!!!

But other than that.... EXCELLENT plan! clap


Last edited by Mad Lensman on Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:55 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Dopey forum coding.,....)
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Re: Safety during transportation.

Post by ElaineC on Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:58 pm

.... or hasnt changed their license to their married name and new address yet

oops, runs and hides LOL
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Re: Safety during transportation.

Post by Jod on Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:00 pm

I feel that the ID badges are a definite must but as for checking a database to see if the other transporters I am meeting are legally registered - I just don't think this will get done. Who has the time?!

Not sure on the best way to go about checking ID. Personally I wouldn't feel comfortable sending a copy of my driving license but would be fine to send a copy of a bill or car insurance document or something like that and a photo for the ID card (I think RHU t-shirts would also be useful for recognising other volunteers!).

As Jayne said I think there has to be a certain amount of trust. The data checks may be feasible once RHU gets a bit bigger but for now it seems like too much work for a staff that already has a lot on their hands.

Would a simple database of home addresses, car REG, home phone etc. stored on a secure server not be suitable under the Data Protection Act?
Subject to some exceptions for organisations that only do very simple processing, and for domestic use, all entities that process personal information must register with the Information Commissioner's Office.
This was on Wiki as part of a summary of the 'Act' so perhaps the kind of data we would need would be considered 'simple processing' so may be acceptable?
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Re: Safety during transportation.

Post by Mad Lensman on Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:06 pm

Registering with the Information Commisioner is a very simple affair, an online form and that's about the size of it. They used to send out a confirmation email with a registry number on it by response, but now I think you get the regsitry in printed form.....

Not sure that any of the rescues would be interested in the overheads required to run such a database, and it would also have to be administered etc etc. Would probably push the workload up 100 fold for the mods here if RHU decided to tackle it!!!!
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Re: Safety during transportation.

Post by phoenix on Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:27 pm

ElaineC wrote:.... or hasnt changed their license to their married name and new address yet

oops, runs and hides LOL


follows you rather quickly... zip
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Re: Safety during transportation.

Post by hughy on Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:02 am

id badges good idea and marks comments re askmid surley rescues have a solid reason to use this service .....we may be able to get around the registered owner part by sending an e mail to the driver concerned in the transport run asking for there details of car make and reg and also use this e mail as permission to enter there details for the purpose stated
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Re: Safety during transportation.

Post by Mad Lensman on Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:39 am

gdpost Exactly what I had in mind - Nice to see some common sense there Hughy rather than the "ohhh... Can't do that, it wouldn't be the done thing" attitude... - Thank you!
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Re: Safety during transportation.

Post by Guest on Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:37 am

well said- positive attitudes on such a serious subject!

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Re: Safety during transportation.

Post by Jod on Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:33 am

Mad Lensman wrote:gdpost Exactly what I had in mind - Nice to see some common sense there Hughy rather than the "ohhh... Can't do that, it wouldn't be the done thing" attitude... - Thank you!

I was just being realistic Smile I don't believe that the individual transporters will go and check up on other transporters every time a transport run is done (I know I wont) and I don't think most Rescues have the time for that either.

I'm sorry if you think that's the wrong attitude but I just think we should come to the easiest and most logical solution for all. :S Not trying to be negative, just realistic.
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